Sam Collier Breaks Silence on Hillsong Scandal, Divorce, and the Call That Kept Him in Ministry
Hillsong's first Black lead pastor says he cried when scandal forced him to leave; declines to affirm or deny allegations of infidelity; and says an unexpected phone call kept him from quitting.
Sam Collier, once the lead pastor of Hillsong Church Atlanta, has weathered a series of public storms, from the global implosion of the Hillsong brand to a difficult and widely publicized divorce, in which he was accused of infidelity.
Now, in what he describes as a "miraculous" new chapter, Collier is back in the pulpit as the lead pastor of Christian Cultural Center (CCC) Atlanta, an extension of the influential Brooklyn-based ministry founded by the Rev. A.R. Bernard.
In a candid conversation with Faithfully Mag, Collier opens up about the road that led him here. He discusses being just days away from quitting ministry altogether, the painful decision to leave Hillsong, and how he's navigating co-parenting and his own accountability. What follows is a frank discussion about failure, faith, and the pursuit of redemption.
This excerpted Q&A has been edited for clarity and brevity.
FM: You're the lead pastor of Christian Cultural Center (CCC) Atlanta. Tell us about the new partnership with Dr. A.R. Bernard and how this transition came about.
Collier: Yes, it has certainly been miraculous. I've been a fan of Dr. Bernard for many years... I was the lead pastor of Hillsong Atlanta, transitioned that church to Story Church... went through a little bit of challenges in my own life in terms of a divorce and kind of in that season of church-building and churchgoing, I was looking for a family to be a part of and honestly was on the brink after so many different moves and ups and downs of even leaving ministry.
Maybe about four days before I was getting ready to announce shutting down [Story Church], moving on to another career... Dr. A.R. Bernard's son called me, from a friend who randomly called me out of the blue that week four days before. Two days later, he was in the city meeting with me—Jamaal Bernard—and asking me what it was going to take to continue to do ministry because they were looking to plant a location in the city of Atlanta.
We had a building. We had a congregation that was thriving... And so they saw it as the perfect opportunity, one, to get behind me and to join a larger family, but also to extend their efforts here in the Southern region of the United States. So apparently it had been a prayer of theirs for the last eight or nine years. And here we are: I am in need of a family; they are in need of a foundation here in the South; and we join forces. It was pretty miraculous.
Quotable
“I was looking for a family to be a part of and honestly was on the brink after so many different moves and ups and downs of even leaving ministry. Maybe about four days before I was getting ready to announce shutting down [Story Church]... Dr. A.R. Bernard's son called me... And that's how I knew it was God. I tell everybody, I think had it not been a Dr. A.R. Bernard, I don't know that I would have decided to stay in the game.”
FM: Does Dr. Bernard serve as a mentor and influence how your ministry is shaped?
Collier: Absolutely. For me, the main thing beyond the church was making a decision to be under a mentor who could help shape the next 10 years of my life, versus just having a church. The church became a byproduct of what I saw as a greater relationship with Dr. Bernard from a spiritual father and mentor perspective, and a brotherhood with Pastor Jamaal Bernard.
They would consider us an extension of the Brooklyn location. So you’ve got CCC in Brooklyn, Atlanta, Orlando, Long Island, and soon maybe another location in the South. The vision is for about seven to 10 locations, one church everywhere…. So they are speaking heavily into what we do but also give us the freedom to do ministry in a contextual way that makes sense for Atlanta.
FM: Your publicist described this season as a "powerful new chapter of redemption, leadership, and spiritual clarity." What does redemption mean for you in this context?
Collier: To be redeemed is the idea of being renewed, to be made new, or “refurbished.…” I think the whole idea of Christianity is that we would be born again. that the old man passes away and the new man rises. Our hope is that we are never too far gone to begin again, to dream again, to become a new person…to reinvent yourself….
The last four or five years have been one of the most difficult periods of my life. This included jumping into Hillsong, which was once the largest and most famous church in the world…. For many years, my role in predominantly White spaces was to be a voice for racial reconciliation and social justice…. They were looking to be relevant to a new culture but also answer some of the ills of the day. Which is, what does it mean to come together, how does social justice fit into the gospel….? So that was a little of my journey at Hillsong and it was an exciting journey, especially around the season of George Floyd's murder….
Here I am with this dream of planting a church in the birth place of civil rights here in Atlanta that would unite our culture. About six months later, Hillsong went through a massive global scandal…. We had planted our church in the middle of that. Some documentaries came out and it got pretty wild and crazy. I did not expect that. The Hillsong piece for me was supposed to be the cherry on top, the icing on the cake you work your whole life for.
FM: What was the straw that broke the camel's back for you to finally leave Hillsong?
Collier: It was a tough decision. It was a hard decision. It was a decision filled with tears... for me the resignation essentially said something to this extent: “I love the church. I love the ministry. At this point, the headlines and the scandalous nature of it has impacted the trust of our membership here in the city of Atlanta.” We were such a young church. It was very difficult to weather the storm. So we weathered it as long as we could until our donors began to pull out... If we don't give, the church doesn't live. That's just the bottom line. So the moment you lose your donors and the moment people feel as if they can't trust the ministry for whatever reason, their money goes first. Once the money goes, the church essentially is close to close after that... I was crying when he called me because I did not want to leave... but we just could not continue to do ministry under the immense pressure.
FM: After leaving Hillsong, you started Story Church. What happened there? We understand there were marital issues, but was the divorce the reason Story Church crumbled?
Collier: The marriage absolutely played a massive part, a massive part in us needing to pivot and go in a different direction. I think overall though, how I would sum it up is, you're essentially adding insult to injury because you have a... predominant Hillsong congregation that has now become a Story Church congregation who have gone through trauma with Hillsong. Now they come into this, they're like, “Okay, I'll give it another chance.” Then your founder essentially goes through a divorce and it adds insult to injury and it's kind of the one-two punch... I think it was the combination of the two that eventually made it more difficult for us to continue.
FM: It's been a couple of years since your public divorce. You're co-parenting a son. What is your relationship like with your ex-wife, and how is co-parenting working?
Collier: My son, Sammy, is amazing. He is the greatest thing that came out of a hard situation... I see him about five days a week. He’ll live with me half the time in about a year, so we’re really exited about that. It's amazing. He’s my namesake, so he’s a junior. I think he’s the greatest blessing.
Co-parenting, I think we are doing our absolute best, considering all of the things. We've gotten the handoff right, and it's as cordial as it can be…. In terms of a relationship, that's probably the extent of what we've been able to accomplish thus far…. We're approaching the two-year mark, and things have gotten a little bit better. The hope and prayer—talking about this idea of redemption—is that at some point, relationships can be redeemed and friendships can be restored.
FM: Many of your followers felt caught between two narratives during your public divorce. How did you advise congregants who were confused about who and what to believe?
Collier: I shared a story... from one of my congregants now who... has been with me since Hillsong... she said, “I have a question for you... how do you follow a leader that has gone through as much as you've gone through and maintain trust within that leader with the ambiguity and all of the above?” So immediately my heart sunk... I instantly went into pastor mode and said, “I am so sorry that you had to be a witness to all of this.” Because we don't come to church for this level of hurt... we come to church because we have our own hurt.
I said this to her: I think when you are under leadership who has gone through something, you have to ask yourself a few questions. I think the biggest question is, did God send you here? That's the first question... what has helped me tremendously is starting there. God, do you want me here? Is this where I'm supposed to grow? Is this my leader? Is this the man or woman of God that you have assigned to my life...? If the Lord said yes, then He will work everything else out.
The second question I told her was this... After you've settled the God issue, the second question is, do you actually believe in this leader? That this leader is actually going in the right direction, pursuing the right things, and can be trusted? I said, “If you can answer those two questions, and the answer is yes, then I think that'll help you settle in...” She came back the next Sunday, and she's been with us since.
Q: For the record, do you maintain that you were never unfaithful to your wife?
Collier: This is the best answer I have... I absolutely made mistakes and have taken accountability fully, extreme accountability for my mistakes... It was a very difficult, very difficult, very difficult marriage. Within that hard, I chose coping mechanisms that were definitely not the best, not the thing that I believe God would even be excited about within that marriage to deal with the hard that I have to 100% take accountability for. That's the best I can give. I'd love to give more. I just don't want any more headlines, just to be honest.
But I will maintain that I was definitely not perfect in the marriage and made extreme mistakes that I regret dealing with the difficulty. I said this to somebody, there's a difference between excuses and reasons... I take accountability for that. I made the decisions I made. But, I say this to members and the congregants and to Christians, it is easier to make healthy decisions in a healthy environment. It is harder to make healthy decisions in a very difficult environment. So I think environment matters... I do think context is king and it does matter in the face of why a clergy member would make mistakes to the magnitude that I have made in dealing with that.
Quotable
“I absolutely made mistakes and have taken accountability fully, extreme accountability for my mistakes... It was a very difficult, very difficult, very difficult marriage. Within that hard, I chose coping mechanisms that were definitely not the best…that I have to 100% take accountability for… There's a difference between excuses and reasons... I take accountability for that…. It is easier to make healthy decisions in a healthy environment. It is harder to make healthy decisions in a very difficult environment.”
Q: What motivates you to remain in ministry through all the ups and downs?
Collier: I think ultimately it is the call of God... while I made the decision on the heels of a nervous breakdown... I made the decision personally to walk away. I did not want to continue to do it... And I think for me, I said, you know what? It's unnecessary. It's been too hard. I'm out of here. But the Lord sending Dr. A.R. Bernard and Pastor Jamaal four days before I'm out, sent a message that could not be ignored. I was very upset about it, if I had to be really honest. I was like, “Come on, God... just let me out of the game, please.” But the question became, are you married to your comfort or your obedience? For me, I had to make the decision to follow God at the expense of anyone and to really be faithful to the call on my life.
Quotable
I was like, “Come on, God... just let me out of the game, please.” But the question became, are you married to your comfort or your obedience? For me, I had to make the decision to follow God at the expense of anyone and to really be faithful to the call on my life.
FM: You seem to have your hands in many different projects beyond the pulpit. Is there anything new you're working on that you're excited about?
Collier: Yes, in the midst of it all, there have been glimpses of hope and opportunities, and one of those opportunities has been with American Urban Radio Networks.… They've given me the opportunity to be, at this particular moment, the only faith-based podcast on their podcast network... I've got a podcast called “The Narrative with Sam Collier….” [We] give people a safe space to own their truth, own their story, and even rewrite their narrative….
And I'm working on a book that will hopefully come out at some point called Redemption. It's the first time I've ever said that publicly…. It is very rough because I want to be honest, I want to be forthright. It is not a tell-all. The idea is to talk about what it means to go through hard things, make mistakes and mature through those, and begin again…. There’s heavy accountability, heavy mentorship, heavy demand for maturation [in working with Dr. Bernard]. As we walk through a unique and deep process of change and becoming, making even wiser choices and decisions, the goal is that the book would be birthed out of the struggle.
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