You've Heard Her Frustration, Now Hear Her Hope: Brenda Salter McNeil Unfiltered

"We, the people of God, are supposed to be at the forefront of confronting and repairing those things that are broken and impeding people's lives [and] ability to thrive."

Last summer, an excerpt from my interview with the Rev. Dr. Brenda Salter McNeil made waves. We were supposed to be discussing her book, Empowered to Repair — what she calls her “most courageous” work yet. But when I asked about her regrets, the conversation took a sharp, unexpected turn.

In a raw and powerful moment, McNeil revealed her deep frustration with being used over decades of her reconciliation ministry to placate White Evangelicals.

Happening at the start of a contentious political season, her words on truth-telling hit a nerve. Those remarks, however, were just one piece of a much larger, deeper conversation.

Below is the complete, lightly edited audio of our entire discussion. Beyond the righteous anger, you'll hear the full context: the deep theological well McNeil draws from, her framing of "reparations" as a biblical call to "repair," and her inspiring vision for a church that is a "verb, not a noun."

This is one of those conversations that sticks with you long after it’s over. Prepare to be inspired and, hopefully, provoked to dig deeper.

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Listening Guide & Audio Player

Here are a few key moments you won't want to miss:

• [01:31]: McNeil explains why the "make a friend, kumbaya" model of reconciliation is not enough.

• [03:13]: The fight for Conservatism versus the ethic of love and ministry of reconciliation.

• [06:35]: A powerful vision for the next generation: Why the church must be a "verb" (the ecclesia), not a "noun."

• [09:56]: How a remark by Bryan Stevenson and reading Isaiah 58:12’s framing of “reparations” became a turning point.

• [15:22]: Dichotomy of the intellectual and the spiritual, and the power of desperate prayers.

• [20:38]: Regrets with White Evangelicalism, the full story behind her “new pair of glasses,” and the James Baldwin quote that changed the direction of her ministry.

• [26:22]: Where she finds hope and encouragement.

Click the red arrow below to start listening to this exclusive interview.